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Modi x Debra Messing LIVE at 92NY

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Episode 164: Filmed live at 92NY, Modi is joined by Emmy Award–winning actor, producer, and advocate Debra Messing for a candid conversation on identity, advocacy, and how comedy can change the culture.

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SPEAKER_03:

Ladies and gentlemen, hello. Are you ready? Are you ready? That's the night of community comedy machine. No, are you ready? No, this does not happen without a producer, a manager, the person that made the links to come see the show, the emails that don't end. Please help me welcome to the stage my producer, my manager, and my full-time husband, Leo.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello. Good evening and welcome to And Here's Modi live at the 92nd Street Y. Thank you all so much for being here tonight. What started as a little experiment, a way to capture some of Modi's offstage conversations, has turned into this beautiful, funny, surprisingly heartfelt project that people all over the world connect to. The podcast has become, in its own way, a vessel for Mashiach energy, spreading laughter, curiosity, and a little light wherever it goes. We've now taped 163 episodes. Right? This will be episode 164. Some of you may remember we were here at the 92nd Street Y for our 100th episode, and we are thrilled to be here again tonight. We'd like to join the 92nd Street Y in thanking the Henry Nyas Foundation for making tonight's event possible. Yeah, give it up for the 92nd Street Y. Over time, we've had everyone from comedians and authors to activists, musicians, news anchors, close personal friends, rabbis, cookbook authors, and because this is a Jewish podcast, more than one doctor. We've even had released hostage Omar Shem Tov and his family join us, which was one of the most moving conversations we've ever recorded. The show is at its heart a meandering but warm conversation, always with a Jewish twist and always anchored in humor and humanity. Tonight feels particularly poetic for me because our guest embodies so much of what the show is about, using art and laughter to explore identity, faith, and resilience. Deborah Messing is an Emmy Award-winning actor, producer, and advocate whose work has spanned Broadway film and television. She's used her platform to champion social justice, women's rights, and the Jewish community, all while making millions of people laugh along the way. Of course, we all know and love her from Will and Grace, a show I technically wasn't allowed to watch growing up in my very sheltered Catholic home. God forbid I see a depiction of a happy Will and become gay. Or worse, see myself in grace and become an interior designer. It is my genuine pleasure to set the stage for two Jewish entertainers and voices who are only becoming more essential in today's noisy and often divided world. So with that, please help me welcome Modi and Deborah Messing.

SPEAKER_03:

How are you? Oh my God, this is so amazing. When we began this and planned this, and it does take so much work, this doesn't just happen. What Leo has to go through is unbelievable. To get your tochis in these chairs is one of the it's a it's a miracle. It's nothing short of a miracle. But when we began this, there were still hostages. And now we're in a different zone. We are in this zone of gratefulness, of of gratitude, of shiach energy. Yeah, and I'm so happy you're here.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my gosh, I am so thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_03:

Amazing. Now now you and I only met a few months ago because we started going to events together that were um that were Jewish and whatever the the world brought us together in some ways. Um, but you and I could have met many, many years ago.

SPEAKER_01:

How's that?

SPEAKER_03:

I auditioned to be will. And um I have the pilot right here. In nine in November 5th, 1997, I auditioned at NBC with Steve O'Neill, and I didn't get the role. And tonight we're gonna find out why I didn't get the role. We are gonna read the audition sides from the scene that I was given with Will and Grace. Leo will set us all up.

SPEAKER_00:

Grace Adler, 30, adorable, neurotic, happening New York chick. Will Herman, early 30s, excessively handsome, masculine, charming, subscribes to four magazines: The New Yorker, The American Lawyer, Vanity Fair, and The Advocate. Act one, scene B, Interior Grace's office. We are in a tribe aloft that serves as the office of Grace's interior design company, A Touch of Grace. Grace holds up a pair of furniture feet in the shape of eagle talons for Will to assess.

SPEAKER_04:

And I want to use these on the love seat in their library.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. The accent that begs the question is it a comfy chair or a bird of prey?

SPEAKER_04:

Do you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

I like it.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you like it? Not that much. You're wrong. You're wrong. Post Empire is very hot right now. Jackie used them in the blue room. And if they're good enough for the Kennedys, they're good enough for Nick and Nicky Noxon from Armonk.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, if they're for Nick and Nicki Noxon from Armonk, then I love it. I gotta go to work. I'll see you tonight at the poker game.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

I like it.

SPEAKER_04:

Why they suck.

SPEAKER_03:

Now you know why I didn't get the role. Now, imagine that the role of will was played by an Israeli gay. A near not far, if you will. Or a will, like when you die, you leave a will.

SPEAKER_04:

And I want to use these on the love seed in their library.

SPEAKER_03:

Horrible. It's horrible. I don't know if it's a chair or a bird's nest.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

I like it.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

Beside, I know I like it. I like it.

SPEAKER_04:

You like it?

SPEAKER_03:

No, no.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you're wrong. Post Empire is very hot right now. Jackie used them in the blue room. And if it's they're good enough for the Kennedys, they're good enough for Nicki Nicki Noxin from Armunk.

SPEAKER_03:

Nick Nik Noxin, Nikki Nikno, Mazan Nicki Nicki Noxin. Mazin Nicki Nik ma Mommy, I love it. It's beautiful. If you pick it out, it's great, it's gonna be amazing. I see you tonight.

SPEAKER_04:

Ken. So you like it?

SPEAKER_03:

I love it.

SPEAKER_04:

Why? They suck.

SPEAKER_03:

See? Oh. This is this is the actual script. And I think we're gonna have you sign it and then we'll donate it to some J J C J A B C. And some Jewish. Oh, that was fun. That was that was that was amazing. Okay, so everybody, our guest, Deborah Masson, you know her, no?

SPEAKER_04:

Hi everyone.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. And she's so Jewish. She's so she's so Jewish. Burh Hashem. Burch Hashem. But you grew up in Rhode Island.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Now what's that like growing up in Rhode Island? Like what what holidays did you celebrate or didn't celebrate?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I was one of three Jews in the entire community. Wow. Yeah. But my parents were very Jewish. My father was president of the temple. And so we always went to the high holidays. Pesach was, of course, our favorite. And we had our Catholic best friends come over and they would go under the table looking for the Afikomen. And that was it.

SPEAKER_03:

That was it.

SPEAKER_04:

That was it. I know when I was really little we went to temple for Sukkot. I mean, I I couldn't even tell you now which miniatera it is.

SPEAKER_03:

No one knows which is no, there's nobody in this room that can tell you which miniatera it is. Not one person. Not one person. Luckily, my rabbi, his birthday was on Shminyatzer, so that's what I know. That's my rabbi's birthday. That's it. That's otherwise no one knows what that means.

SPEAKER_04:

That was it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And um, and you, but you you you so growing up, you did you did you see people on television that you related to? Did you have to become the character that you became?

SPEAKER_04:

No, I I there was there was no representation for a a Jewish woman on television. Um, and so Barbara Streisand, funny girl, was my patron saint. And um, it was actually a movie, uh, dirty dancing. And yeah, baby. That that was the first time I saw myself. I'm like, I'm a mess like her, I'm neurotic like her, I'm a klutz like her, I have a strong nose like her, and she's famous and can be an actor, so I guess I can too.

SPEAKER_03:

Perfect, and you nailed it. Um, do you prefer to play Jewish roles?

SPEAKER_04:

Duh. Yes, yes, of course.

SPEAKER_03:

I anytime I got cast as anything that wasn't Jewish, I was so like, wow, I have a range. I have a range. I'm it's an it's a like it was an Italian or Puerto Rican. It wasn't like I wasn't some waspy guy at a country club. It was the same thing as a Jew, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

Grace was the first Jewish role I played.

SPEAKER_03:

It was that was the first role you played that was Jewish.

SPEAKER_04:

Ever.

SPEAKER_03:

Now you have to understand she has a huge acting uh training and background in theater, and it's not just Grace, it's just like there's a lot. But that was the first Jewish role.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

What were the roles before that they weren't Jewish?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I was a bioanthropologist on television. Um I that was I was on Seinfeld, um but late she wasn't she wasn't Jewish. They straightened my hair.

SPEAKER_03:

But everybody on Seinfeld wasn't Jewish, but they all were Jewish.

SPEAKER_04:

They sounded Jewish. Like, like to me, that was a Jewish show. Okay, you know, and I used to like say, well, you know, Julie Louis Dref Dreyfus is the you know that character is Jewish, and they're like, No, she's not. She's not Jewish. I'm like, yes, she is, and they're like, no, she's not. And so I, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you ever I I once did a commercial for the Knicks, which spikely to his team. It was a commercial, like it was uh it was, it wasn't like a big thing, but like it was a series of commercials. They had like whatever the tagline was, it was like, but it's the Knicks, you know, like so they had different people in different like restaurants or on uh on the subway, and then I was cast as the Jewish husband, and I had a Jewish wife, and this was an insane moment. You're sitting there, and Spike Lee was directing it. That's his team, right? So now we do the line, and it was it was so crazy over the top Jewish. It was like um, like the how the wife is asking how much were the tickets, and he tells her how much, and she goes, that much? Like she's this cheap wife, and then I go, but it's the next, you know? And Spike Lee comes in and goes, too Jewish. Have you ever had a too Jewish moment?

SPEAKER_04:

Um I my very first movie I ever did with Keanu Reeves, a walk in the A Walk in the Clouds. Um I was my very first scene, I was doing a kiss with Keanu Reeves in 5050. And I came in and I heard, cut! How quickly can we get a plastic surgeon in here? Her nose is ruining my film.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

And he sat there like this. Wow. And the crew is like, what's going on? And and he was like, Look at her, look, look at the nose. Oh my god. And I was like, You saw my nose when you cast me. And I, you know, I had never been in Hollywood, I'd never been in a movie, and I was like, I just sat there, you know, shaking. And then you he was like, All right, let's go back to one. We can't change it now.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow, that's so mean.

SPEAKER_04:

And after that, I called my agents in New York and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not built for Hollywood. I'm I'm not pretty enough. I want to come home and I want to do theater because everyone in theater can be beautiful.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Because it's far away.

SPEAKER_03:

Um it's live theater, it's real. There's something there. You know, when you so I was gonna ask you the difference between performing on a camera, you know, when you walk onto a set, there's about 50 to 100 people there with walkie-talkies and microphones, and and then they go, cut silent action, and you're on. Yeah, so like what do you what like would you prefer that over a live audience?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh no, live, live theater for sure is my is my number one. And I also, you know, I have this theory that TV is a writer's medium, film is a director's medium, and theater is an actor's medium. It's like once once you uh it opens, it's in the hands of the actor, they get on the stage, you can't cut, and it's wild and dangerous, and no one can can tell you, I don't like that anymore. And uh, and then you get to have a dialogue, you know, while you're acting, and every night there's a different dialogue, and it's it's just it's it's incredible to me. Being on set for like 17 hours and only doing a half of a scene makes me crazy.

SPEAKER_03:

And as a comic, you're doing it and you're like, you're hoping that someone chuckles, you're hoping to hear a chuckle in the side that someone like thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_04:

But then when they when they do, they're like, uh, gotta go back with sound, sound, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

It's a nightmare.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, yep. But it's it's uh it's storytelling, but it's money, they pay so much, they pay so much. So good. Oh my god, the much for that much money for and they keep sending you the checks, and it's so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_04:

I j I just did an off-Broadway play in the fall. And hey, thank you. It was called Shit Hit Fan, and it was very funny. Um, we did the math. I was paid$69 every performance.

SPEAKER_03:

I know, yeah, there's no no money in that.

SPEAKER_04:

$69.

SPEAKER_03:

No money in that, yeah. Yes, yeah. No, no, that's why people go. We should be on Broadway. I said, Yeah, you I can't afford to be on Broadway. Leo likes nice things. I can't afford. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

I got a kid I have to put through college.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um Barbara, yes, you were amazing on Broadway. You just did a movie that I watched three times. Alto Knights. Who saw it? Nobody because they don't advertise anymore, they just make things with huge actors and uh on on um on Apple TV and this, and you no one hears about it. There's no ads for it, but Alto Knights, she plays uh uh the wife of a mafia king. The king is Robert De Niro. And she's Jewish, and it's so good. I watched it on a flight somewhere, I watched it on the flight back, and then when they told me that you agreed to do this, I go, I'm I'm gonna watch it one more time so I can talk about it. You were so good. You were what was the age gap between you guys? Is it a real story?

SPEAKER_04:

It's a real story.

SPEAKER_03:

He he had a Jewish wife.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh she was the only Jewish wife of a mobster in all of history, and that's what made him particularly special because he cared about her more than the norm. Um what did you ask me?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh the well, I mean, you obviously didn't meet the the woman that you played. Oh but how did you go into her head?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, oh, well I you did it so good.

SPEAKER_03:

No one represents us better than her on television.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03:

And film and whatever. It's like it's easy to look at, it's funny, it moves, we're okay with it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

That means a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I read seven books on it, you know, and I just on their relationship, on the history at that time. And I actually found her great nephew on Facebook.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

And um, I was just like, Hi, I'm playing Bobby. Can anyone anyone give me information? And he was like, I was with her until the day she died. No, and uh, and it was amazing.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you see videos and hear her voice?

SPEAKER_04:

No, I I saw I saw pictures from newspapers and magazines. Okay, and then I found out that his funeral was two blocks from my house, my apartment.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

And when I saw the picture, I'm walking down the street and I'm like, oh my god, that's so cool. But um, and then I had a uh dialit coach to help me, you know, with with the Jewish New York. I didn't I didn't know there there was a Jewish Harlem. That was something I learned. Um I had a ball.

SPEAKER_03:

You can't it looked like you were.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, you asked the age, the age difference. Yes. He's 25 years older than me, and I was supposed to be his contemporary.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04:

So they were like, how are we gonna make her look old? And they were like, okay, let's just this and this, and I'm like, I'm like, they're they're trying to make me look old and ugly. Like, this is not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03:

I thought there was like a 20-year difference, and they just leaned into it.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, no, what they said was they're like, we'll say she's six years younger. Okay, and I was like, he's 82. He's 82, and you're saying he's 66, and I'm 60? I'm like, it's Bob De Niro, you can say whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03:

And what is it like being on set with Bob De Niro?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god, I thought my bowels were going to release.

SPEAKER_03:

It was your first time working with him.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. I I was so nervous I had to audition with him in his office in Tribeca with Barry Levinson, who did uh Rain Man. And you know, we have three scenes and we sit down. I came with costumes.

SPEAKER_03:

You came with a with with a with different looks.

SPEAKER_04:

I I came, I came into his office, I had put my hair up, red lipstick, I wore a 1950s dress, I put a lot of powder on to make it look like I had wrinkles, and then you know, the scene was that the upper west side, you know, penthouse, and she's in a dressing gown. And so I brought a bright red dressing gown in my bag, and they're like, hi, nice to meet you, nice to meet. They're like, Okay, are we ready? I'm like, hold it, please. And I put it on, they're like, What what are you doing? And I was like, it says she's wearing a dressing gown, and they're like, Okay, go ahead. And he and we start, he says one line, and then he just starts improving.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

I was given scenes, I memorized every single line, and he did not follow any of it.

SPEAKER_00:

So good.

SPEAKER_04:

He just starts talking, and I'm just like, what's happening? Oh my god, I'm out of my body. Okay, you know, I gotta sink or swim, and thank God we did improv in school.

SPEAKER_03:

If you come with dressed, it's uh it's a thing. I would so I I got I had a role as a rabbi, shocking. It was very That's a stretch in a movie called um Bayou, um Louisiana Bayou. Um, and Cuba Gooding Jr. was a star and he was directing it and all that. And the and the person who got me said, Cuba's gonna be at this party, he wants to see you for this role. I came dressed with the full robe, the talus, the hat, the whole nine yards. Shaum aleichem. I walked in, he goes, You got it, no problem. I got out of, I got out of drag. I got out of drag, and that was it. And it's and I got two hysterical scenes in the movie. Um, it was great. It was, but you yeah, it shows a little. You came with a schmatta, it was nice.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I I didn't tell you that the role had already been offered to someone else.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

You know who? Uh the most Jewish actress in Hollywood. Michelle Pfeiffer.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_04:

I laughed so hard I fell off the couch.

SPEAKER_03:

That's hysterical.

SPEAKER_04:

I was like, are you kidding me? And they're like, nope, they offered it to her, and we're just gonna wait, and thank God she turned it down because then I got it.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow, that's see, Michelle Kenaji. If you see this movie, see the movie, it's the it's the best thing. It's such an easy movie.

SPEAKER_04:

Streaming, you can find it.

SPEAKER_03:

It's so easy. Alto Knights, it's such a great, and the guy that played with him was like a Joe Pesci, but it wasn't Joe Pesci.

SPEAKER_04:

Can I tell you? Yes, that most of the mobsters in that movie were real mobsters.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Mobsters that Bob grew up with on the Lower East side.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, he knew them.

SPEAKER_04:

He stayed friends with them, and he puts them in every movie that he has when he can.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I was sitting with one of them, you know, at a bar and we're having pizza, and I and he and he I was like, So what did you do? And he was like, I was in trucking.

SPEAKER_05:

Trucking.

SPEAKER_04:

And I was like, oh wow, and then I I said, um, were you around during that Lufthansa thing that happened? He's like, no comment. I was like, you were there? He's like, Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. I was like, we've got real mobsters. Don't kill me, please don't kill me.

SPEAKER_03:

That's it's it's when it's when you when they're when they're real, you can feel it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I I had I had a scene on the Sopranos. Um it was three three pages, and it was cut, they cut it down to three lines. Howard Stern said to me, You're the only guy that got they got whacked in the editing room. But when we did the the the reading, yeah, I was like, oh, no one here is acting. This is this is them. Before we sat down, where were you Sunday? I ate over here, Joey Maloney, but baloney canoni. I was like, oh my god. So I went right into my, I was an Israeli diamond dealer. Again, a stretch. I really had to go into character thoughts and uh I was Meisner. I did Meisner for that one. Got it. Yes, and so I was like, oh Modi, just do your Israeli accent even when they're not doing the reading. I was like, hey, is there any coffee left for me over there? And then and that was and that was it was it was real, it was real, it was real.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Now a little more serious. When we when you do a when you have a guest, of course, you do the research and you GPT and chat GPT and and thank God Leo knows how to do it really well. We were reading all your stuff, and what blew us out of the water is that season six of Will and Grace, you were pregnant.

SPEAKER_01:

I was very pregnant.

SPEAKER_03:

How did you like we were like looking at her and we binged the show and then did you go back to season six? We we began season one. No, no, no. We began we we did episode one, season one a while ago before the new show came on.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so we watch all of that. So we were ready when that was released.

SPEAKER_04:

Got it.

SPEAKER_03:

Bam, we were right flowed right in there. Yes, and it's an easy show. 22 minutes, you're good, everybody's happy, no one dies, there's no fouter, there's no door slamming on your surround sound. It's just easy. It's just an easy show. That's all we need because the Xanax needs to to to you can't you can't have gunfire before you go to bed. So we loved Will and Grace, and then the stuck, and then and then when we we we were like, how is she pregnant? How do you navigate your health, the baby's health, and your role staying on the uh in the in the story?

SPEAKER_04:

University of Miami.

SPEAKER_03:

University of Miami.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I uh at 11 weeks I ripped my placenta.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you think you were gonna hear the word placenta tonight? No.

SPEAKER_04:

And my doctor said you have to be off your feet. And I was like, I'm doing will and grace. What are you talking about? And he's like, You you can't. I'm like, I have to. And they're like, he's like, okay, I will allow you to work four hours a day, but that includes transportation both ways. Nobody was very happy to hear that information because usually you we only shoot on one day, and now because of this, we had to shoot every single day.

SPEAKER_05:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, so that I felt very guilty about that, and that was very hard. Um and then seventh month, I get into a car accident, and I start bleeding, and I go to the hospital, and I stay there for three days, and they stop the bleeding, and that and she's like, You are getting into bed, you are not moving. And I was like, Done. And so Will and Grace, they're like, Okay, we have to rewrite this entire season. It was a whole thing with Leo. I was supposed to be married with Leo, Harry Connick Jr., and be happy. And they're like, Okay, we have to break you up. And they're like, We need you, so we're gonna come and we're gonna build the set in your living room.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god. So that's nowhere online, by the way. What we didn't we look we tried to look for more information about that. Have you spoken about this like big time or no? I don't think so. We knew there had to be more behind it.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, they came and I was up in bed, and they are like literally changing, like putting on all new curtains and and wallpaper and all new, and I and they're like, okay, we're ready for you, Deborah. And I'm like, I'm literally in my robe. They're and they wrote it so that I was sick and I had to be in bed.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

And so I slowly come down the stairs, and like all the cameras are there. I lived in a tiny little house. I was like, I don't know how you did this. And then I got into bed and I did the scene with Will. And then uh and then that that was it. After after uh after the the the car accident, I never went back till the for the end of the season. I missed the last, I think, three or four episodes.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Drama!

SPEAKER_03:

Drama. Oh my god. No, we knew when when we were Googling and Googling and researching, and what what because there's nothing worse than doing a podcast and the person's asking you the same questions over and over. And we didn't hear you talk about this anywhere else. No, so we knew there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04:

But if you go back to season six, you will see that I am constantly holding a big plant. Like there's a big plant and I'm holding it here, or it's a laundry basket, or it's I mean, I am it it's ridiculous. Like it became a joke. They're like, up, there's the where's the plant? Just bring the plant in.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow. Well, thanks for sharing that with the audience. That's a that's an amazing story to hear.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I and I just was like, and Julie Louis Drivers had had several babies while she was working, and it was like smooth sailing.

SPEAKER_03:

Is there like advocacy for that in Hollywood now for for women with no, no, just don't have your baby while we're shooting? Do me a favor.

SPEAKER_04:

They're like, if you could work it around, you know, the season break, that would be really great.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow, wow, wow. Okay. Continuing on. Um I found so you you you now we're in the advocacy of Deborah, which you it's unbelievable. We're gonna get to Israel in a All of that, but before then, um I I very much believe in the power of intention, which is a book written by uh Dr. Wayne Dyer, which I love. It helps you understand Torah and Talmud and it helps you understand Kabala. It's an amazing, easy way to understand life. It simplifies things, and power of intention, when you intend to do something, it um it manifests never in the right, never the way you think it's gonna happen. But when we found out about you, so you're a Brandeis alumni.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Shocking, shocking at the 92nd Street Y, Brandeis alumni. Who would have thought? But when you were at NYU studying acting, yeah, you had a professor.

SPEAKER_04:

I did. I had a teacher, a theater games teacher, and he was beloved, and he basically had the innocence and wonder of a seven-year-old. Wow. And um he had AIDS, and I had never met anyone with AIDS before. And two months after I graduated the third year, he died at 41. And we were there at the hospital, and it was very traumatic. He, you know, he couldn't speak, he had it, you know, and then he had a tube coming out of his head that was draining blood. And you know, we were all coming to say goodbye, and we did, and then I was like, this should never happen ever again to anybody. I need to do something. And I was a student. I I literally didn't make enough money to have to pay taxes. That's how poor I was.

SPEAKER_03:

Um again, this is a Jewish audience, no one here really. There's many ways to not pay taxes. But continue.

SPEAKER_04:

So I so I just started giving$10 to Amphar and um God's love, we deliver. And they in New York they deliver food to people who are homebound with AIDS. And I just did this, you know, for a couple of years. I didn't talk about it. And then I got um, I I saw this in LA, this eldo shoe ad, and it was see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, and it was about the stigma of AIDS. And I thought, whoever did that is a genius. I want to meet them. And I I was at a dinner for Cartier, and I'm sitting across from this woman, and she is the vice president of Population Services International, which is a global health organization. Um, and she's like, Yeah, I did that. That was me. And I was like, if there's anything I can do, I would love to do it. She's like, Okay, we're gonna go to Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_03:

No, but this is that's after Will and Grace.

SPEAKER_04:

Um yes.

SPEAKER_03:

No, but before Will and Grace.

SPEAKER_04:

I was giving ten dollars.

SPEAKER_03:

You were giving ten dollars to help AIDS and the awareness of you were doing what you were doing, and then but your intention was how can I help you? How can I help? Yes. So God gave you a role as well as a grace. You are now a massive gay icon, and then you can go to Zimbabwe and do whatever you have to do to raise. That's that's that's that's the first of all mashir energy, and that's also power of intention. You had the intention, and God said, Okay, she wants to help, I'm gonna make her grace, and now you have a platform.

SPEAKER_04:

I absolutely absolutely believe that everything led me to playing grace, right? And then it just continued from there.

SPEAKER_03:

And I will tell you, as a 20 and 30-year-old person living in New York at that time when the show was on, the best thing your show did was not talk about AIDS. Yeah, because people the millennials came all the way, but I don't know if you remember back in those days, AIDS and gay was was synonymous. You said gay, AIDS, gay, AIDS gay. It was that was just all it was.

SPEAKER_04:

And AIDS was death sentence.

SPEAKER_03:

It was a death sentence. It wasn't like it is today. And I, you know, of course, as a comic, you try to make fun and have good, you know. But I so I say in my generation, when we came out to our parents, we say, Mom, I have AIDS.

unknown:

Ah!

SPEAKER_03:

I'm just gay.

SPEAKER_04:

Wait, you're gay?

SPEAKER_03:

Nervous. But um, but but but the fact that you guys just normalized being gay. He's a lawyer, there's another guy who's a little more, he's an actor waiter, okay. But like, but AIDS didn't have to be the main focus of the whole conversation in will and grace. And that was a huge, that was huge. Huge.

SPEAKER_04:

I you know what, it never even occurred to me that we we never said AIDS never in the 11 years we were on there. Um, I think I think it it was so scary because we we started just as Ellen DeGeneris was canceled because she came out as gay, and her TV show was canceled because she was gay. And we just thought, oh God, we're gonna have two episodes and then they're gonna cancel us. And so, you know, our main focus was how do we just make people laugh long enough that they fall in love with all four characters, and then we've got them, and then we can really start having fun and and really sharing, you know, jokes about being gay, and you know, and uh it's the greatest privilege of my life to have been given that opportunity.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and it affected so many people, it just normalizing being gay. It was like, you know, today I say that I tell my my younger husband that today you have everything is is just there's gay rights and there's gay marriage and there's gay flags on everywhere. And back back then it was just AIDS, it was just AIDS. That's all that was linked to gay. And you guys just like no, he's a lawyer, he's an actor, she's this, she's a friend. And my mom, you know, when the when the show came on, my mom said to me, Um, even a gay guy needs a woman to make him a little crazy. Yeah, it's just a little giga. And my friend Dina's in the audience. Dina, are you here? Yeah, there's you that that was my grace. That was my grace. So I was the will, and she was my grace.

SPEAKER_04:

Hi, Dina.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and so she so she was, we were like when when I showed her the audition, she goes, It's us, it's us, but it wasn't because we were much Jewish and spoken Yiddish once in a while. So it wasn't us, but we but she was my but you met the real Grace.

SPEAKER_04:

I did, yeah, I did several years later. But but you know what what made me realize that it was going to have impact, it was the the end of the first season, and I was traveling and I was in the Chicago airport, and this woman comes up to me and she's like, Are you Grace? And I was like, Yeah, and she goes, My husband hates gates. And I'm like, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03:

Same.

SPEAKER_04:

Where's this going? And she's like, and I he refused to watch, and so I would watch and laugh, and he would he would just be reading, and slowly he's his newspaper would come down, and now he's walking around just Jack. And I was like, wow, wow, this is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_03:

Wait, hold on. I had another question I want to go back to. So you were huge famous before social media was social media. Yes. So the people just would see you and done, and then you had like social media in your face. Yes. Like, what's that like? I I I was never famous without social media. I mean, that's like fame, and definitely not your kind of fame, but like what how is that from like people knowing you from not social media to all of a sudden they have a way to access you and tell you how much they love or hate you?

SPEAKER_04:

I have such social anxiety now because of social media. It's because you walk into a room and everyone knows who you are and you don't know anybody. And and then everyone comes up, you know, with the phones like take a picture, take a picture, take a picture, take a picture. And it just it's it's very unnerving.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, before social media, when I lived in LA, it was being chased in a car by paparazzi. It was paparazzi hiding in bushes and popping out with long lenses and following me at midnight when I was in the grocery store trying to like just have some peace. Um, and I, you know, and I thought, oh, that that distance really was better.

SPEAKER_03:

It was better. It was better. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

I can't I can't imagine being young right now becoming hugely famous with social media. I just, you know, all the opinions, all of you know the negativity, and it's it's not healthy.

SPEAKER_03:

It affects you. It doesn't, doesn't uh Leo watches all of our stuff. I don't, I only look at the good stuff. Love you, my son's gay. This stuff, I love it, yeah. They was like, no, Jesus didn't mean that, and he's fighting with them on that, but but thank okay. It's it's but you the the fans are fans and I love them. I love the fans. Someone just came. I've I've now we have things we say when people come up to us. The worst thing is when they come up to you and they say, You know me. You know me. Someone from 30 years ago in high school who's now bald with a mustache and a gut. I should remember him from high school. So when someone says, You know me, I say to them, Do you have the money you owe me? Do you have the money? I haven't seen you in a while. Do you have the money you owe me? Son of a bitch. Uh but okay, and then I want to get into so you were a huge advocate for, and I I even wrote down here the the um that's a youthful move. The dry, should moisturize my hands. It it really is insane. I'm just showing you what ChatGPT for this is this is for her just credits, this is for all the work she did with AIDS HIV, and this is for Israel. And that's that's when we told ChatGPT summarize. That was a summarize. Um you just went right into it with Israel. Wow. Wow. Wow. Did you ever think that was gonna happen? Did you ever see you being this Jewish champion? You knew you were a Jewish champion, but did you know you were gonna be championing the Jewish cause? No, never.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I I never advocated for you know against Jew hatred it's it until Charlottesville, 2016. That was when it began. And I was like, oh my god, we have Nazis, we have to speak out, we've gotta, you know, not very fine people. Um, and so that's when it started. But you know, when October 7th came, I you know, it was it was so traumatizing to know that all of these families in Israel were were just devastated and people stolen into you know tunnels and and that the world is celebrating and the world is screaming genocide. I mean Israel didn't go in until for 19 days. But they were already and and that to me I just kept thinking I cannot imagine what the Israelis are feeling right now seeing that on television. And I just thought I have to go. I have to go, I have to bear witness, and I have to that was your first time in Israel. Ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

My parents were very big Zionists, they went all the time. Um, and every time I wanted to go, they'd be like, eh it's not, it's it's not safe right now. And I'm like, it's never gonna be safe. Um and then just life took over, and so I never I never made it there. Um, but I was there and I met hostage families, and I met the IDF in the hospitals who were amputees now. Um, I went into Gaza, into the tunnel. Um, it it was a very, very intense experience. But talking about social media, when I came back, you know, all I kept hearing was, you're lying, you're lying. That didn't happen, that didn't happen, that didn't happen. And I started showing videos from the kibbutz and the interviews and the people, and they anytime anyone said that I was a liar at that point, I was like, when you get on a plane and you go to Israel and you see and experience everything that's happening there, then you can have your own point of view. But until then, shut up.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, it's it it you you don't know like when you're gonna be called to to and you you just just boom, you were there.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I mean, you know, we were talking about this before. I I was raised with if not now when. And I had that had never resonated for me the way it did on October 8th. I was like, oh, this is that moment, and all the Jews everywhere are going to just stand up and say, we are not gonna let this happen. We've seen this before, and the whole globe is going to say, We're not gonna let this happen. And it didn't turn out the way that I had uh hoped it would be, in terms of the empathy and compassion from the people around the world. But I felt like, you know, all right, uh I'm only one of a handful of people who are speaking out. I I don't know if I'm just like screaming into the wind. I don't know if this is doing any good. Um, but it it was the way for me to to feel sane, to push back, and I I regret nothing.

SPEAKER_03:

We were in the green room, eight people came in to thank you.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So you know that you were it was doing something. It wasn't I don't know if it was you were doing again, it's just a little bit of intention, and it you it'll happen. Yeah, and people came into the green room. Thank you so much for what you do for the Jewish community. They were thanking you. The the the the the treasury person of the 92nd Street, why the whoever worked at this one's mom, that one all came in to to just thank you for all you do. And and thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

I've never been prouder to be a Jew in my life.

SPEAKER_03:

That's it.

SPEAKER_04:

And that's that's the beauty of what has come out of this catastrophe is the the sense of community. You know, I never felt like I was part of a Jewish community. I grew up one of three kids with, you know, someone painting a swastika on my grandfather's car. You know, I it it always felt like I didn't realize it until after October 7th that I on some level I've been hiding in order to fit in because that's what we our ancestors were always told to do. And I was like, I I I have to not be obviously Jewish in order to be able to play different characters. Um and then all of a sudden this happened, and I and I started meeting all of these incredible people who were speaking out, who were, you know, raising money for you know the hostages, and and I made all of these new friends that people I'd never known before. And I was like, oh, I can say I I am part of the Jewish community of New York now.

SPEAKER_03:

100%. Here they are.

SPEAKER_04:

And it feels here they are. It feels incredible. I am so I'm so grateful it came late, but I'm you know, I'm very grateful.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, coming late's okay as long as you come. Coming late's okay, as long as you come, yes. I came late to being gay. I came late to, I mean, I was gay, but I wasn't gay. And then all of a sudden you're gay because you're married to a guy. A little technicality like that, and you're all of a sudden gay. That's Modi's gay husband. Yeah. Um so um, okay, let's just lighten it up. The hostages are back, we're in a different era. We are what's we're we're we are and we're waiting to see what the next calling is. For me, it was COVID, and then October 7th, and then making people happy, bringing some light and some happy and again in a community environment. Every time I get into a theater, boom, it's my community. You know, it's really amazing. Um, and uh, so what's like what what's the next thing?

SPEAKER_04:

What's I just I feel so hungry to be in a comedy, to laugh, to make people laugh. I feel like it is always a gift to me to experience it. And I I, you know, I feel like the world needs to laugh more than ever before now. And so, you know, I'm really looking for something that I can do. You know, unlike you, you can, you know, you can stand on a stage and and you'll have a whole full house and you'll be able to do what you do. I have to be given the opportunity to act. Someone has to give me a job.

SPEAKER_03:

I will I will be having this opportunity on April 23rd at Radio City Music Hall.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

We will all be commuting. We'll be one big community in that beautiful theater. Um, the tickets will be going on sale soon. Make sure you sign up for the for the newsletter so you get right away. And this is a podcast. It's crazy. Yeah, it's amazing. You'll be there. Aspen, Colorado. I'll be there in February. Yes. Are you that rich that you already know you're gonna be there? That's it. We'll be in the palace too.

SPEAKER_04:

You feel love?

SPEAKER_03:

We have a love, love. This is number I'm I'm telling I'm not like you. If I see people walking with the armakas and I walk by and then recognize them and go, they go, oh my god watches your videos. Um, so you know, and this is a podcast. This is a podcast, and we have people that are a part of our podcast. We have a sponsor, and we I we have to thank them. They are family whites in Luxembourg, the law firm, yes, that not only does well, they do good, they're super philanthropic. Arthur Luxemburg, if you ever need a lawyer, he's this is number one. He's like a brother to me. He's giving me advice. You want to know what advice he gave me? Don't get hit by a car. That was directly. And his wife, Randy,'s in the audience, she listens to all the podcasts to report to him what we talk about. And AH provision. Do you like Glock kosher food? Of course I do. Number one hot dogs in the world, kosher dogs.net. Promo code Modi, 30% off your first order.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my god, I'm ordering tonight.

SPEAKER_03:

Don't order. He'll send you everything you want. Okay. And the packages, it's so nice with t-shirts. The best hot dogs ever. Okay. Ever. All right. We're wrapping this up because it's been an hour. Uh okay, my two questions I stole from uh from RuPaul.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Because we love RuPaul drag race. If anything really helps the Xanax kick in, a drag show is that. And so, what is your superpower?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I can sleep 17 hours straight without waking up.

SPEAKER_03:

No. Without pills?

SPEAKER_04:

No pills. You just put your head down. I mean, this is like at the end of a Broadway run, the end of a film where I am literally on fumes, and you you like, you're trying to stay alive, and then finally it ends, and you're like, and but during the show, would you still sleep 15 hours while you're doing it? Uh no, because uh I only get eight hours of sleep total.

SPEAKER_03:

Only eight hours of sleep. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

That's not enough. But on no, it's it's my it's my I can sleep anywhere. Anywhere. I mean, uh, you know, airplanes, it could be a one-hour flight. I can I can take a great little power nap. I yeah, it's good. What a gift God gave you. It is a gift.

SPEAKER_03:

What a gift God gave you.

SPEAKER_04:

But it's not, it's not I mean, usual for me to sleep 11 hours on a Friday night. Like, and I look forward to it. I'm like, is it Shabbat yet? Can I sleep?

SPEAKER_03:

That is a superpower, and I enjoy it, enjoy that power. Um, okay. My other question was if you could tell your younger self something, what would you tell your younger self?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh nothing unfurls the way that you think it will or want it. And you just have to be open to the ride and know everything happens for a reason. And be patient.

SPEAKER_03:

Patience, yes. A little bit of patience goes a long way, yes. Okay, and of course, mashiach energy. Like, what's your mashiach energy?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh uh to me, mashiach energy is is Jewish light.

SPEAKER_03:

Jewish light.

SPEAKER_04:

Jewish light.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. When the hostages came back and you saw the entire country unified, it was such a spark of Mashiach energy.

SPEAKER_04:

I I mean to see, I mean, to see everybody there waiting and singing and praying, and then all of a sudden to see them come out and those reunion videos, I mean, as a parent, I can't even fathom what they have been going through for the last two years. And I mean, the the the blessing, the miracle that they all came home.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_04:

It's just and it's it is a miracle.

SPEAKER_03:

I always say that if the Jews were unified, the whole world would come together. And that what we saw that day was just a spark of it. It wasn't long-lived, no, but they got back in the Knesset and started fighting again. But but it was that moment you can see it's tangible. This is what Mashiach energy is, and okay, we gotta get back to it.

SPEAKER_04:

And this is this is what everybody can focus on and believe in and fight for together.

SPEAKER_03:

And I will tell you, no, I saw you, you're you're you're producing a show called Others, and I went to go see that with you, and then I'm just on the way out, I said goodbye to you, like just bye, and you go, Modi, that's my son, like that. And to me, I hear Mashiach Energy. This is my Mashiach energy.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, he's everything. Yeah, he really is.

SPEAKER_03:

It was not just the two moments, and he's funny, she said, and he's funny.

SPEAKER_04:

He's funny, he was doing stand-up at 12. He's funny at at the Gotham Comedy Club, 12 years old. He was doing stand-up.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you want to open for me? I'm going to Syracuse.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh no.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm booked in Syracuse. He got I need him just to be in the audience. There's six people, and then the I need he'll be the step. I need a minion. I'm looking for a minion in Syracuse. I can fill up 6,000 people on uh at Rockefeller Center, but in Syracuse 12, I'll be happy.

SPEAKER_04:

That's why I was like, I want you to meet Modi. He was like, I'm so excited to meet Modi.

unknown:

Oh yeah. Good.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. We are we are done. We have lightning round questions. We we're we're exactly at an hour, which is amazing. You want to do the lightning round questions? Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

We can do them fast.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Lightning.

SPEAKER_03:

Lightning round questions. Coffee order.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh straight coffee, uh, almond milk, and two stevia.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

I have never had a latte in my life. I've never had a cappuccino in my life. I don't know what any of those half cap things are. Just give me straight period.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. A nice dose of caffeine. Celsius is something you should look into. What's the one thing that uh when people find out about you are super surprised? And I I think we've already done that with that 17 hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I could juggle. You can juggle, no, I could juggle pins and pass them. We had a circus class for three years in graduate school, and I was really good on the trapeze.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow. Describe your dream green room writer. Like, what's one thing you need in the right in the room?

SPEAKER_04:

Grease is peanut butter cups.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, okay, good. That was an easy one. Really?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh that's all I need.

SPEAKER_03:

Really?

SPEAKER_04:

That and water.

SPEAKER_03:

Meat foam roller. Okay. Book or TV show you binged recently?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, Adolescence.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We haven't seen that yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

And um, I just read an amazing book about uh a Jewish family in New England. It's very funny, and it's called Hope, and it's by Andrew Ridker.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

And I recommend everyone getting it. It is fantastic.

SPEAKER_03:

Your happy place when you're not working.

SPEAKER_04:

Anywhere in Africa. Um I for 11 years I kept going back and forth for for um activism, but other than that, on my couch with a book with my dog on my lap.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, okay. If you weren't an actor, what would you be?

SPEAKER_04:

A litigator.

SPEAKER_03:

A litigator, a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04:

A justice. I've been justice obsessed since I was so little. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow, a litigator is a lawyer. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We have one here. My cousin who went to Brandeis is here too. Where are you? Gila. Right there, litigator. She is the if you're ever in a court, that is the last thing you ever want to see on the other side of the room. She was 24 years at the Miami Dade County.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03:

She's you know badass. You don't mess with that. The last thing on earth you ever want to see across a courtroom is her litigator. Shkay. Okay. What instantly makes you laugh?

SPEAKER_04:

My son.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Purry, okay. Uh favorite red carpet look you've ever done?

SPEAKER_04:

I'd have to say uh the Elisab uh pink dress I was wearing when I won the Emmy.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. That's a Google moment. And that's it. That's it. And then your favorite Yiddish word.

SPEAKER_04:

Schmuck.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, okay. That's a that's you think it's easy, it's a complex. As a pronoun or a noun?

SPEAKER_04:

He's a schmuck.

SPEAKER_03:

So a pronoun.

SPEAKER_04:

A nun. A noun.

SPEAKER_03:

So a schmuck, schmuck puts is like he, him, she, her, schmuck puts.

SPEAKER_04:

Schmuck puts?

SPEAKER_03:

What a schmuck puts. Uh puts. What a schmuck. Schmuck puts is the same thing. As a pronoun. As a pronoun. Now, as a noun, as a noun, schmuck is this. This guy wants to retire. He's got no money. So he tells the wife, you have to go to work. So what kind of work could she do? Oldest profession in the world. They open a house of ill repute. First customer comes in, says, How much? She has no idea. Honey, how much are we charging? See if you can get$100. Sir, it'll be$100. Okay,$100. He says, All I have is$25. Honey, he just has$25. Well, for$25, you can give him a look and touch. So, sir, for$25 we can do a look and touch. He says, Fine. Drops his pants off and pulls out a schmuck the size she never saw in her life. She says, Hold on, honey, could you lend him$75? And there's your noun. We you know after October 7th, I was ending every show singing a tikkwah. And and um and I don't want to stop. Let's do it. Let's let's end the show. I'm gonna ask you all to rise and we'll end this night with a hat tikvah. If you don't know the words, you're gonna hum along, it's an easy one. And say we're we're singing a tikvah in that in the please send them home and thank you for sending them home. Oh the law of that tikpa tenu. Hasn't our tikvah already worked? Say it in a questioned form. Hasn't it? Isn't it working? And just that's that's the intention.

SPEAKER_02:

When you're ready, I elect Happy Healthy New, everybody.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you very much, Deborah. Thank you.